Player Expectations...

or "it's got to have elves".

One problem I expect with CSotA is the setting really has no room for elves. It's a post demon holocaust version of our world. I could go the Wizards route (which is also that of Terry Brooks) in that demi-humans were in hiding and/or evolved from humans.

But that's "eh". I'm more likely to have them alternate world people trapped here but to be honest, I'd rather not have them at all.

Still, removing elves, dwarves, and hobbits might be too much for a bunch of players with no old school experience.

Nothing makes you work...

like a deadline.

I just sent out the following email:

I'm looking to start a Classic D&D game. In this sense Classic means
anything sold as D&D, not AD&D, prior to 3rd edition, or things made
to work like that. Specifically that means the modern recreation
Labyrinth Lord, which is a fairly good restatement of the Moldvay/Cook
Basic/Expert set (commonly called B/X) as opposed to LBB (original),
Holmes Basic (the Blue Dragon), or Mentzer (BECMI). LL is currently
available for free online but anyone with some basic D&D experience
will be fine.

Things that are being done that are more retro than modern:

1. The big megadungeon at the center of the campaign (actually a
couple) famous for dangers and wonders. You will not, however, start
there necessarily.
2. Strong influence by fantasy written by authors established prior to 1980.
3. Several customizations to recapture the spirit of this quote from
Dragon 109: "In the Good Old Days, the days of the original three
books of the Dungeons & Dragons game, the number of variants on the
rules was roughly equal to X,where X was the number of players in the
game.". In fact, a modified version of the method in that article has
been used to create some alternate classes. Ideas and methods from
the other members of the Classic Family as well as a crucial Tunnels
and Trolls system will be added to the core.
4. This is a sandbox game. You will be presented with some basics
about the world and a starting point. Plot hooks are there but there
is no script or central plot.

The game will start Friday, February 13th at the MSC at 7:30 and
generally run 2.5-4 hours. Player handouts (about 3-5 pages) will be
ready a week from today.

The City States may have visitors.

Spellcraft & Swordplay

I have just purchased the download version at Lulu.  Based on James Maliszewski's review I suspect it's similar to what I'm trying to do with OD&D.

Look for a review next week.

So much for...

my efforts to make this blog more regular.  I haven't even gotten the attack chart written yet.

That does not mean I've given up on the old school thing.  Just that life has been more complicated (moving, trying to close on a building, hospital stay, and so on).

So, for those awaiting new material, it is coming.

A brief note on manners...

If all you can post about is a spelling error and you can't even own that but do it anonymously expect to be deleted.

The Missing Archetype...

Last night my roommate popped The Scorpion King into the DVD player. I love it and think it's one of the best movies to watch as inspiration for old school gaming. When I watch it I want to play some classic D&D right after. Most of the characters are warriors, Cassandra is a magic user as is Philos essentially (or a cleric) even if he uses items not spells, but how do you representArpid the Horse Thief.

The obvious answer is thief. Lots of old schoolers don't want to use the thief. I get why. It is the first of the narrow classes instead of a broad archetype. I think Arpid is a perfect example of that. While he is a horse thief that's profession not avocation. A warrior could be a horse thief. Nor do his skills match those of the D&D thief. He doesn't hide in shadows or move quietly (Mathias, clearly a fighter, does those more) . He doesn't pick pockets or scale walls. He does do one escape trick but the D&D thief doesn't have "Houdini escape abilities".

I think OD&D is missing a classic archetype that the thief was aiming at and that, in title at least the thief evolved into: the rogue. The rogue is the clever guy. He can fight, might know a spell in worlds that have them, and probably prays a bit but he lives by his wits. He usually has a trick or two unique to him. Arpid's ability to get out of the ground seemingly by magic and he use of reverse fire eating are grand examples.

The 3.x rouge is the closest D&D has come to this fellow but by concentrating on using skill to represent him instead of unique feats I think they missed.

How would I do him in OD&D? First, I'd use saving rolls a la T&T (see my earlier post) or the unified saving throw of Swords and Wizardry. Then, I'd give the rogue a selection of talents. A talent is an open ended descriptor and a plus value. If he is doing something that fits the descriptor he can use the plus on the saving roll. T&T 7 introduces them in a way that kinda works, but needs testing.

In fact, these talents might be open to every class but limited either in scope or number for ones other than rogues. My complaint about the C&C SIEGE system is not that everyone can try anything but that everyone is equally good at everything not a class ability. While I don't want the modern idea of "if you lack the skill or feat you can't do it" I contend that old school characters are made of what they are good at. The rogue is the ultimate version of this: he's good at things very few other people even consider and, using his wits, lives on those tricks.

And be honest, isn't a fire-breathing escape artist more fun than someone hiding in shadows any day of the week.

The Saving Roll and Replacing Treasure Experience

OD&D is not the only old school fantasy RPG.  Not only is Tunnels and Trolls at least as old school as OD&D and Holmes I'll contend it has retained that nature much longer than D&D did.  Given most old schoolers think AD&D, B/X, or BECM is the last of the old school and T&T stayed old school through at least 5th edition (which lasted past 2000 as the most recent) it's hard to argue.

In many ways I like T&T more than D&D.  It's much, much loser than any version after Holmes for one thing.  It has been my convention game for a year now.  Ken St. Andre is a huge Lin Carter fan (as am I).

Why don't I adopt it as my primary game?  Three reasons, in order of importance: increasing stats, tone, and combat.  T&T uses wholesale stat increases to convey experience, raising stats either by the new level number, half of it, or twice it (depending on what stat you choose).  That can quickly get silly.  The tone of the game itself is silly, more silly than I'd prefer.  Finally, and least important, is its system which is much more group than individual combat.

However, it does have two things I love.  First, there is no xp (adventure points) for treasure as it is its own reward.   Second, there is its saving roll (SR) system.  They also combine to give an alternative to playstyles from OD&D.

Instead of saving throws, ability checks, or skills (those show up in 5.5 but use the same system) there is a unified saving roll system.  The GM gives you a level of saving roll to make. As explained you roll 2d6 and subtract it from the SR value (20 for 1st level, 25 for 2nd, and so on).  If your luck is greater than the result you pass otherwise you fail.  Of course, this is the same as luck + 2d6.  But what if you have a luck of 7?  Well, you still have a chance because doubles explode.  So in theory a loser with a luck of 3 has a chance to make a 7th level throw with a target of 50.  You can also see why those increasing stats are important.

However, there is more than just a luck roll here.  The rulebook mentions using other stats and it is a convention in T&T play that a character may get a SR for any attempted action.  Finally, SR garner experience points, succeed or fail.  In 5th edition the amount of xp is the roll time the level while in earlier editions it was the amount rolled for success and twice the amount missed by for failure.  Here is where the two systems converge.  OD&D rewards thought and trickery by giving xp for treasure obtained regardless of combat.  It encourages relatively safe action to get experience.  T&T encourages daring doing by rewarding attempting risky actions.

I'm thinking of adding SR to my S&W variant rules allowing the characters to add their level as well as the stat and rolling on 2d10.  Lower levels will be a tad easier but without the stat increases higher levels may be harder.  I might try 2d6 as well and see where we go.  Of course, I will remove treasure xp in favor of SR xp if I do use SR.  I think it will encourage more of the game I want to see.

City States of the Apopcalypse

And so we have a name for the new old school campaign.

Tomorrow's long post will go a ways to explaining why I threw out "Swords of the Red Sun" for this take, but here's the bullet point version of the new setting:

• It's our world several centuries after a mid--21st century biblical apokalupsis eschaton brings our era to an end.  It comes about, in conflict with prophecy, due to the willfulness of man.
• The world is mostly blasted waste from man's war with the minions of Hell.  The war was a success in that the demons were limited in their ability to rule but the world was destroyed in the process.
• Most people live in isolated city states separated by the blasted wastes.  Some are close enough to war over the fertile land around them.
• Among institutions that survived was the Church.
• Tech levels have fallen and vary from low medieval to late antiquity/late renassance.
• The except on tech is surviving fire arms.
• The wastes still have military caches, demon hordes and nest, mutants (magical, radiation, and chemical), and plenty more to explore.  Of course they also have raiding tribes and barbarians.
• Due to man's disruption of prophecy the world itself may be undermined and denizions of a new underworld are chewing at its foundations, which troubles everyone.   
• Characters are generally going to be drawn from the freebooters who seek old tech in the desert, anti-raiders who hire out to rescue kidnapped wealth citizens of the cities, mercenaries who fight the cities' wars, and similar.

So, nothing hugely original but it pushes my buttons.  The goal is to create the science fantasy version of what comes 200 years after the punk rock mutant rebels of 70s/80s after nuclear war movies.  It provides an outlet for my facination in the kinds of esoterica Ken Hite has made a living writing about while providing an old school, free-booting D&D kind of setting.

The to hit table I've always wanted...

So, this isn't exactly a holy revelation but something I like.

One thing I'd like to include in a old school style game is the Chainmail type to hit charts: Weapon vs. AC instead of level.

If you take the following three things:

1. OD&D's alternate combat tables (well, S&W's actually)
2. Greyhawk's weapon vs. AC chart
3. The 3rd edition method of noting combat advances
4. The OD&D use of magic defenses: they subtract from attack roles

you could build such a chart for OD&D easily.

Take the 1st level numbers for 1-9 and use them as the base to add the Greyhawk numbers to. Viola a chart for any level 1 character to hit based on weapon and armor class.

Take the first edition charts and work out a by level to hit bonus for each class and you're done.

Some advantages

1. It basically gives you Greyhawk's system without two chart look-ups and the "okay, you're AC-3 due to magic but the armor is leather..".

2. You can give magic armor it's own type on the chart...hell, you can go pure descriptive and get rid of numbers. Want Mithril chainmail to be very effective against points and sharps but, due to it's lightness, even worse than regular chainmail against blunts, just add a column. If you're looking to do a science fantasy game this helps a lot.

3. More interesting shield effects are as easy as just treating any shield as a -1 to hit.

4. Giving new classes their own to-hit progression is much easier.

The biggest downside I can see the 5 20's from later versions would be hard to do.

I'll try to have my first pass up later tonight.

This week's fun reading...

Another new feature for this blog. Each week I trend to be reading three things: a professional book, a serious book, and something fun and light hearted. Most weeks the last is something that would be good gaming inspiration.



While I have read some Conan (both debased and raw) I will admit to the (in old school D&D circles) sin of not being a huge Howard fan.

That said, I am a huge fan of sword and planet stories from the classic (Barsoom) to the pastiche (Jandar) and the massive (Dray Prescott...I own the entire DAW run) to the unique (Gor...look, there are lots of other words but I wanted something neutral).

That Howard had written one escaped my notice until the past couple of years when Pazio's Planet Stories line opened with one (you are buying those, right). So far, I've only read the introduction, but I am looking forward to it. I'll probably just sit down on Thanksgiving and read it in one session.