There has been a lot of talk about what constitutes old school gaming. Instead of trying to define what old school is I thought it might be more useful to discuss what I miss from my early period in the hobby:
A shared literary language: Much of the old school talks about how early RPGs assumed a wargaming background. To a much lesser degree they have also discussed an assumed literary background. To me the orders of priority is reversed. I suspect there is the source of the differences James Maliszewski had after some posts on GROGNARDIA.
The biggest decline in the hobby has been the trend to taking it's cue from visual media (movies, TV, anime) and, especially in the realm of fantasy as a genre, gaming itself. It is not uncommon for modern players to have not read much if any classic fantasy or science fiction literature that informed the entire hobby at the creation. Their formative views are Star Wars, Buffy, and The Lord of the Rings movies. Of course, this reflects reading as a past time being less common. However, tabletop RPGs are a medium of words and when you try to build without having words as a significant part of your inspiration you'll run into trouble.
Characters were built of things they were good at, not things they could do: There is a longer more specific post about all this topic in the works so I'll be brief. In outline form this can be summarized in the difference between 3.x feats and C&C SEIGE engine. In 3.x if you don't have it on your sheet you can't do it. In C&C if you can think of it you have a chance to unless it's a defined ability of another class. Now, I think the SEIGE engine supporters who respond to claims that "this makes all characters the same" with "roleplay the differences" are still missing a big part of the point, but they on the side of the angels here. Unless the ground rules specify otherwise (such as the basic class system) anyone can try anything.
Mixed aged groups: I've discussed this before, but that is the difference between a real community and just people doing something. People of different ages have different goals and objectives and bring different types of creativity and energy to the table. Beyond just having less ability to bring and keep new people in the hobby the lack of age integration also means a loss of creativity and energy on one hand and the follow-through to get it all together. Imagine combining the creative genius of both SenZar and Dogs in the Vineyard together to create a gaming group. I know many of you are thinking utter fail but I'm seeing the potential for brilliance.
Clubs: Too often on internet fora the gaming world is seen as driven by the industry. This is a mistake. For a niche hobby like RPGs (or even hobby gaming in general) to survive the driving force must be actual participants. In the 70s clubs did this. Clubs transmitted the gaming half of the common culture (and often much of the literary culture especially if a sci-fi club was involved) and their revival (much more than internet community) is crucial to maintaining the hobby, much less reviving old school common culture.
Magazines: This is another place where the internet is a poor substitute. While I love fora I miss The Dragon, The Space Gamer, Ares, Different Worlds, Heroes, The General, Moves, Strategy and Tactics, and so on. Blogs and forums are great, but most websites still don't hit the editorial level magazines did. More importantly, the internet becomes a background constant. The arrival of a new issue of a magazine brings with it a huge sense of specialness. It created a mental space to really put gaming, thinking about it and being creative, to the forefront of the day.
Wednesday, August 20, 2008
Wednesday, August 6, 2008
Baby bats and new gamers...
My other major hobby besides gaming is DJing a goth and industrial music show on a local community radio station. A few people expressed surprise that someone over 40 would be into goth, seeing it as a teenage thing. The fact is goth is a scene with people ranging from their teens to their fifties. To the point that we even have names for the stages such as "baby bats" and "kindergoths" for teenagers, gerigoth for goths in their 30s, and elders for even older goths.
What's important is that baby bats and elders are part of the same scene and see each other that way. It's especially important that the elders see it that way to keep the scene healthy. In fact, part of my mission statement has long been, "Responsible elders don't let angsty teenagers grow up Emo. They're ours."
Sadly, while RPGs were like that when I joined the hobby in the 70s it seems to have died off. People generally play within their broad peer group and usually a mixed adult/teen group happens when a player's child joins the game.
I was in a wargaming club at 11 and while much of my early D&D play was with my peer group by 16 I was routinely playing in a group that was made up of adults more than teenagers. While total size and teenager count varied for most of the period it was a 6 person group with 2 teenagers, 3 married adults (including one couple), and a single guy in his 30s. My experience doesn't seem uncommon. Ron Edwards notes over on the Forge that among his early groups were groups of "Mainly older people with a sprinkling of teens who tried to do adult things as much as possible. ". He also notes "Significantly, many groups, even the teen ones, included women in their late twenties who were interested in role-playing and not at all concerned about the propriety of hanging out with boys ten years younger."
This makes sense given when Gygax and Arneson created D&D they were in their 30s and 20s respectively and meant it for their peers. Today, RPGs are a "kids" thing to many people, including many teens and college students just learning the game (before you say "college students aren't kids" I'd point out that we tolerate adolescence well into 20s now). These people will not stay in the hobby past college for the most part. They will grow up and move onto "adult" things. My father waited well into my 30s for this to happen.
So why did people like myself stay with something from our childhood well into middle age? Because instead of being a kids thing for us, RPGs were our first adult experience. It was the first place adults treated us as peers. I don't think I can overestimate the value of this to both myself and the hobby.
People talk about an old school renaissance in terms of systems, rules, and play styles. I'd like to see one more part to it. I'd like to see people getting teenagers in their game, be it OD&D, D&D4, or even World of Darkness. I can think of nothing more important to the long term survival of our hobby than teaching teenagers just learning it that it isn't one of their last "kid" things but their first adult thing. For all the talk of getting new blood few people recognize we get plenty but we keep little.
Last Saturday at a comics and gaming con I met one of Houston's goth scene promoters and we discussed how to keep the baby bats. Now I just need to find some DMs who want to keep the new gamers.
What's important is that baby bats and elders are part of the same scene and see each other that way. It's especially important that the elders see it that way to keep the scene healthy. In fact, part of my mission statement has long been, "Responsible elders don't let angsty teenagers grow up Emo. They're ours."
Sadly, while RPGs were like that when I joined the hobby in the 70s it seems to have died off. People generally play within their broad peer group and usually a mixed adult/teen group happens when a player's child joins the game.
I was in a wargaming club at 11 and while much of my early D&D play was with my peer group by 16 I was routinely playing in a group that was made up of adults more than teenagers. While total size and teenager count varied for most of the period it was a 6 person group with 2 teenagers, 3 married adults (including one couple), and a single guy in his 30s. My experience doesn't seem uncommon. Ron Edwards notes over on the Forge that among his early groups were groups of "Mainly older people with a sprinkling of teens who tried to do adult things as much as possible. ". He also notes "Significantly, many groups, even the teen ones, included women in their late twenties who were interested in role-playing and not at all concerned about the propriety of hanging out with boys ten years younger."
This makes sense given when Gygax and Arneson created D&D they were in their 30s and 20s respectively and meant it for their peers. Today, RPGs are a "kids" thing to many people, including many teens and college students just learning the game (before you say "college students aren't kids" I'd point out that we tolerate adolescence well into 20s now). These people will not stay in the hobby past college for the most part. They will grow up and move onto "adult" things. My father waited well into my 30s for this to happen.
So why did people like myself stay with something from our childhood well into middle age? Because instead of being a kids thing for us, RPGs were our first adult experience. It was the first place adults treated us as peers. I don't think I can overestimate the value of this to both myself and the hobby.
People talk about an old school renaissance in terms of systems, rules, and play styles. I'd like to see one more part to it. I'd like to see people getting teenagers in their game, be it OD&D, D&D4, or even World of Darkness. I can think of nothing more important to the long term survival of our hobby than teaching teenagers just learning it that it isn't one of their last "kid" things but their first adult thing. For all the talk of getting new blood few people recognize we get plenty but we keep little.
Last Saturday at a comics and gaming con I met one of Houston's goth scene promoters and we discussed how to keep the baby bats. Now I just need to find some DMs who want to keep the new gamers.
Monday, August 4, 2008
To have an unfair world you need an impartial GM
There is a thread on RPG.net about what defines "old school" as a play style.
One idea that has gotten a lot of props is "the world does not scale".
One I haven't seen enough of on the thread is the other side of "the world does not scale" and that is "being smart enough avoiding what you can't handle means you get to avoid it".
The importance of this was burned into my brain earlier this year. A large group (8) had been avoiding a threat for a couple of hours (real time...which was a couple of days game time). The party was split into a group of 2 and one of 5 (it was arranged to go 4/4 with two different GMs, one of whom was a player in the combined group). Another player, whose character had died a couple of weeks earlier, was going to come back in and the GMs decided to add him to the group of 2.
So how did he do it? By having the new character pinned by the very threat 8 characters spent two days avoiding. We tried to defeat it and the GM even admitted he couldn't think of a better strategy than the one we used. Still the end result was my character and the one who was supposed to enter were killed.
I walked out and never went back. While admittedly it was more than just this one event that caused me to leave it was the final straw. As for the others beyond the encounter it was the first week of actual play after 3 rounds of character creation of 6+ hours each and I resented having wasted three weeks to create a character who was killed more or less by fiat. Also, the split had been arranged at a meta-game level the week before do to group size yet when the time came the GMs allowed "in character" opinions to change it to 5/2.
As I've taken to the "old school" movement more and more I wonder if I was right to be angry. Interestingly looking at it old school has convinced I was correct.
Too many people confuse "old school" GM with "killer" GM. This story demonstrates the key difference. We, as a party, have proven we knew to avoid this threat and done so with a mix of skill and luck. However, faced with a need to introduce another player into the game the GM choose to give two characters the following choice:
1. Actively attack a threat eight players worked to avoid because it was too deadly.
2. Leave another player's character to be killed by the threat when he was placed there not by his own actions but by GM fiat.
This was not only unfair but it lacked impartiality.
An "old school" GM, who embraced "the world isn't fair" but "the GM is impartial" would have chosen a different way to introduce the new character. Not because it was "fair" but because it would allow the players the ability to make choices to deal with how the world was unfair, just as he had the larger party for two hours (the GM for the smaller group was also running the unified group up to the split).
In that the "killer GM" and the "Monty Haul GM" are actually the same failing, just on different sides of the scale.
One idea that has gotten a lot of props is "the world does not scale".
One I haven't seen enough of on the thread is the other side of "the world does not scale" and that is "being smart enough avoiding what you can't handle means you get to avoid it".
The importance of this was burned into my brain earlier this year. A large group (8) had been avoiding a threat for a couple of hours (real time...which was a couple of days game time). The party was split into a group of 2 and one of 5 (it was arranged to go 4/4 with two different GMs, one of whom was a player in the combined group). Another player, whose character had died a couple of weeks earlier, was going to come back in and the GMs decided to add him to the group of 2.
So how did he do it? By having the new character pinned by the very threat 8 characters spent two days avoiding. We tried to defeat it and the GM even admitted he couldn't think of a better strategy than the one we used. Still the end result was my character and the one who was supposed to enter were killed.
I walked out and never went back. While admittedly it was more than just this one event that caused me to leave it was the final straw. As for the others beyond the encounter it was the first week of actual play after 3 rounds of character creation of 6+ hours each and I resented having wasted three weeks to create a character who was killed more or less by fiat. Also, the split had been arranged at a meta-game level the week before do to group size yet when the time came the GMs allowed "in character" opinions to change it to 5/2.
As I've taken to the "old school" movement more and more I wonder if I was right to be angry. Interestingly looking at it old school has convinced I was correct.
Too many people confuse "old school" GM with "killer" GM. This story demonstrates the key difference. We, as a party, have proven we knew to avoid this threat and done so with a mix of skill and luck. However, faced with a need to introduce another player into the game the GM choose to give two characters the following choice:
1. Actively attack a threat eight players worked to avoid because it was too deadly.
2. Leave another player's character to be killed by the threat when he was placed there not by his own actions but by GM fiat.
This was not only unfair but it lacked impartiality.
An "old school" GM, who embraced "the world isn't fair" but "the GM is impartial" would have chosen a different way to introduce the new character. Not because it was "fair" but because it would allow the players the ability to make choices to deal with how the world was unfair, just as he had the larger party for two hours (the GM for the smaller group was also running the unified group up to the split).
In that the "killer GM" and the "Monty Haul GM" are actually the same failing, just on different sides of the scale.
Sunday, August 3, 2008
Intermediate Dungeons and Dragons
So, I finally settled on a system for Swords of the Red Sun, the classic D&D game I'm trying to get going.
I choose Basic Fantasy Roleplaying after seriously considering Rules Cyclopedia. The list of pluses and minus is interesting but BFRP had two things that made the choice.
One was players can order a new hard copy for the same price as a used copy of the Rules Cyclopedia. Actually, BFRP is $20 and RC runs $30 on eBay.
However, the other thing is BFRP is actually closer to the D&D I played than any printed version under the D&D label or the other two major simulacrum games. It is essentially BD&D without character races as discrete classes.
Which probably describes my AD&D1 games from 1979-1985 (junior high and high school) more than anything else. We used the PHB and the charts in the DMG but the actual rules were out of Holmes and B/X. No concept of segments, D6 initiative, and so on.
Looking back I'd have to say I've never played AD&D, just BD&D and, for lack of a better term, a hybrid I'll call Intermediate Dungeons & Dragons.
I choose Basic Fantasy Roleplaying after seriously considering Rules Cyclopedia. The list of pluses and minus is interesting but BFRP had two things that made the choice.
One was players can order a new hard copy for the same price as a used copy of the Rules Cyclopedia. Actually, BFRP is $20 and RC runs $30 on eBay.
However, the other thing is BFRP is actually closer to the D&D I played than any printed version under the D&D label or the other two major simulacrum games. It is essentially BD&D without character races as discrete classes.
Which probably describes my AD&D1 games from 1979-1985 (junior high and high school) more than anything else. We used the PHB and the charts in the DMG but the actual rules were out of Holmes and B/X. No concept of segments, D6 initiative, and so on.
Looking back I'd have to say I've never played AD&D, just BD&D and, for lack of a better term, a hybrid I'll call Intermediate Dungeons & Dragons.
Wednesday, July 30, 2008
Influences...
Over in LotRP challenged the RPG bloggers to identify the influences on their games with a minimum of five. He's after "read/watch this to get what to expect in my game".
A grand idea for a first post so I think I'll play.
1.Lord Dunsany:I found Dunsany via Lovecraft and he is my standard for sense of wonder and the feeling I'm after in my new campaign. His somewhat dreamy stories of ancient cities and traveler's tales lack the grit and adventure of Howard or the horror of Lovecraft but they have a sense of another world that neither captured, although Lovecraft came close with the Dreamland. Far and way my favorite story is Poltarnees, Beholder of Ocean found in A Dreamer's Tales. I think How the Enemy Came to Thlunrana from Book of Fifty One Tales is required old school reading. As the above links indicate, most if not all of Lord Dunsay's short fantastic works are now at Project Gutenberg. His two best know fantasy novels: The Charwoman's Shadow and The King of Elfland's Daughter are in print.
2.Robert Adams: I'm sure I'll trash my old school cred by saying this, but to me the barbarian isn't Conan (although I accept he is the archetype) but the plains dwelling Horseclans. Arguably the ultimate early 80s heavy metal sword and sorcery series I knew Milo Mori long before I really knew Conan but I learned the same concept of civilization leading to softness. Also, the two Friends of the Horseclans anthology are to my mind the best example of the golden age of fanfic, where authors were able to encourage it and help publish the best of it.
3.Leigh Brackett:On December 5, 1964 NASA stole two of the greatest worlds in literature from us: Mars. In confirming Mars as a cold dead lifeless world they ensured Leigh Brackett would set the last of the John Stark stories not on Mars or Mercury, but on Skaith, a planet 'round another sun. Before the Mariner probes reveled the impossibility of her work Brackett had continued writing about a solar system full of adventure. Although they aren't classified as such I consider many of the Mars stories to be great examples of the "dying earth" genre named after the wonderful Jack Vance book. Anyone looking for that kind of vibe in their game would be well served by reading stories such as The Jewel of Bas and The Beast-Jewel of Mars. One Brackett story, A World is Born is available at Project Guttenberg.
4.Edgar Rice Burroughs:When I said Mariner stole two worlds the first was Brackett's Mars. The second was Barsoom. This world of dying cities, egg laying princesses, and six armed green giants inspired people as diverse as EGG and Carl Sagan, albeit in very different directions. While best know for Tarzan, Burroughs created many fantastic heroes. The first was John Carter of Mars, a former Confederate Calvary officer wished to Mars when his strength from growing up in Earth's higher gravity (and this in 1914) gave him a huge advantage as a fighter. Just as REH created and defined swords and sorcery with Conan in the 30s Burroughs created the planetary romance, specifically the sword and planet version, with Carter. He would also create Pellucidar, the world inside the hollow earth (and very influential on the D&D setting), Caspak, land of dinosaurs and cavemen and Amtor, his Venus which is my favorite series of his, as well as others. The first five Barsoom books, first two Pellucidar, and all of the Caspak books are available at Project Gutenberg as well as other Burroughs books (including several Tarzans).
5.C. L. Moore:I once fell for a girl because of the guinea pig she'd had as a child. It's name was Jirel. If you immediately say "of Jory" you can skip to the next entry. If not you are sadly lacking in your reading. If Conan was the first sword and sorcery hero then second was a fighting war woman wearing real armor instead of a chainmail bikini and fighting to maintain a fief in an alternate medieval France. Her name was Jirel and the barony was Jory. One of the many characters I first found via "Giants in the Earth" write-ups in The Dragon she was every 15 year old D&D geek's dream girl and the model for warrior women in my games to this day.
6.Clark Ashton Smith:"I, Satampra Zeiros of Uzuldaroum, shall write with my left hand, since I have no longer any other, the tale of everything that befell Tirouv Ompallios and myself in the shrine of the god Tsathoggua, which lies neglected by the worship of man in the jungle-taken suburbs of Commoriom, that long-deserted capital of the Hyperborean rulers. I shall write it with the violet juice of the suvana-palm, which turns to a blood-red rubric with the passage of years, on a strong vellum that is made from the skin of the mastodon, as a warning to all good thieves and adventurers who may hear some lying legend of the lost treasures of Commoriom and be tempted thereby." If that doesn't quicken your heart to adventure I doubt anything can. Is there any more open fragment more suited to tempt a party to exclude a ruined city? Such is the nature of Clark Ashton Smith's writings. A fan of lost continents and one of the earliest writers of "dying earth" stories with his tales of the last continent of Zothique he seems forgotten compared to his contemporaries but his tales are well worth reading. With nearly all of them online at Eldritch Dark there is no reason not to read them. The site includes other goodies including a D20 sourcebook for Zothique itself.
7.Stephen Donaldson:And now for something completely different. No grand heroes of action here, but instead deeply psychological late 20th century novels with a fantasy or science fiction setting. Yet the Land is inspiring to those wishing to do quest fantasy with a strong symbolic content that isn't Middle Earth 2. His various Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, who is pretty unlikable for much of the first three books (including a rather vile act in the opening of the first), aren't easy going and turn off a lot of readers who want heroic characters in their fantasy. Sometimes I think they belong in general fiction but The Land itself is too fantastic and ponderous a setting to not embrace. His evil races: ur-viles, viles, and ravers are creative and unique. I bought my first issue of White Dwarf specifically to get a write up of them. His giants are stock rip-offs in my setting for seafarers much as Adams's Horseclans are my barbarians.
A grand idea for a first post so I think I'll play.
1.Lord Dunsany:I found Dunsany via Lovecraft and he is my standard for sense of wonder and the feeling I'm after in my new campaign. His somewhat dreamy stories of ancient cities and traveler's tales lack the grit and adventure of Howard or the horror of Lovecraft but they have a sense of another world that neither captured, although Lovecraft came close with the Dreamland. Far and way my favorite story is Poltarnees, Beholder of Ocean found in A Dreamer's Tales. I think How the Enemy Came to Thlunrana from Book of Fifty One Tales is required old school reading. As the above links indicate, most if not all of Lord Dunsay's short fantastic works are now at Project Gutenberg. His two best know fantasy novels: The Charwoman's Shadow and The King of Elfland's Daughter are in print.
2.Robert Adams: I'm sure I'll trash my old school cred by saying this, but to me the barbarian isn't Conan (although I accept he is the archetype) but the plains dwelling Horseclans. Arguably the ultimate early 80s heavy metal sword and sorcery series I knew Milo Mori long before I really knew Conan but I learned the same concept of civilization leading to softness. Also, the two Friends of the Horseclans anthology are to my mind the best example of the golden age of fanfic, where authors were able to encourage it and help publish the best of it.
3.Leigh Brackett:On December 5, 1964 NASA stole two of the greatest worlds in literature from us: Mars. In confirming Mars as a cold dead lifeless world they ensured Leigh Brackett would set the last of the John Stark stories not on Mars or Mercury, but on Skaith, a planet 'round another sun. Before the Mariner probes reveled the impossibility of her work Brackett had continued writing about a solar system full of adventure. Although they aren't classified as such I consider many of the Mars stories to be great examples of the "dying earth" genre named after the wonderful Jack Vance book. Anyone looking for that kind of vibe in their game would be well served by reading stories such as The Jewel of Bas and The Beast-Jewel of Mars. One Brackett story, A World is Born is available at Project Guttenberg.
4.Edgar Rice Burroughs:When I said Mariner stole two worlds the first was Brackett's Mars. The second was Barsoom. This world of dying cities, egg laying princesses, and six armed green giants inspired people as diverse as EGG and Carl Sagan, albeit in very different directions. While best know for Tarzan, Burroughs created many fantastic heroes. The first was John Carter of Mars, a former Confederate Calvary officer wished to Mars when his strength from growing up in Earth's higher gravity (and this in 1914) gave him a huge advantage as a fighter. Just as REH created and defined swords and sorcery with Conan in the 30s Burroughs created the planetary romance, specifically the sword and planet version, with Carter. He would also create Pellucidar, the world inside the hollow earth (and very influential on the D&D setting), Caspak, land of dinosaurs and cavemen and Amtor, his Venus which is my favorite series of his, as well as others. The first five Barsoom books, first two Pellucidar, and all of the Caspak books are available at Project Gutenberg as well as other Burroughs books (including several Tarzans).
5.C. L. Moore:I once fell for a girl because of the guinea pig she'd had as a child. It's name was Jirel. If you immediately say "of Jory" you can skip to the next entry. If not you are sadly lacking in your reading. If Conan was the first sword and sorcery hero then second was a fighting war woman wearing real armor instead of a chainmail bikini and fighting to maintain a fief in an alternate medieval France. Her name was Jirel and the barony was Jory. One of the many characters I first found via "Giants in the Earth" write-ups in The Dragon she was every 15 year old D&D geek's dream girl and the model for warrior women in my games to this day.
6.Clark Ashton Smith:"I, Satampra Zeiros of Uzuldaroum, shall write with my left hand, since I have no longer any other, the tale of everything that befell Tirouv Ompallios and myself in the shrine of the god Tsathoggua, which lies neglected by the worship of man in the jungle-taken suburbs of Commoriom, that long-deserted capital of the Hyperborean rulers. I shall write it with the violet juice of the suvana-palm, which turns to a blood-red rubric with the passage of years, on a strong vellum that is made from the skin of the mastodon, as a warning to all good thieves and adventurers who may hear some lying legend of the lost treasures of Commoriom and be tempted thereby." If that doesn't quicken your heart to adventure I doubt anything can. Is there any more open fragment more suited to tempt a party to exclude a ruined city? Such is the nature of Clark Ashton Smith's writings. A fan of lost continents and one of the earliest writers of "dying earth" stories with his tales of the last continent of Zothique he seems forgotten compared to his contemporaries but his tales are well worth reading. With nearly all of them online at Eldritch Dark there is no reason not to read them. The site includes other goodies including a D20 sourcebook for Zothique itself.
7.Stephen Donaldson:And now for something completely different. No grand heroes of action here, but instead deeply psychological late 20th century novels with a fantasy or science fiction setting. Yet the Land is inspiring to those wishing to do quest fantasy with a strong symbolic content that isn't Middle Earth 2. His various Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, who is pretty unlikable for much of the first three books (including a rather vile act in the opening of the first), aren't easy going and turn off a lot of readers who want heroic characters in their fantasy. Sometimes I think they belong in general fiction but The Land itself is too fantastic and ponderous a setting to not embrace. His evil races: ur-viles, viles, and ravers are creative and unique. I bought my first issue of White Dwarf specifically to get a write up of them. His giants are stock rip-offs in my setting for seafarers much as Adams's Horseclans are my barbarians.
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